Major ownership development

[everyman]

I genuinely can’t see a new main stand ever happening but I could see the current structure undergoing major refurbishment like what they did at Plymouth and their mayflower stand. Almost identical in fact just on a smaller scale.
New and modern dressing rooms in the corner in place of the existing club shop & ticket office with police control room on top. Old stand reprofiled and modernised inside and out with new seated area in front.

Hopefully the MG takeover goes through and we can start to see our off field (and on field) hopes become a reality

Extending and updating the old stand at both ends seems the most likely and affordable and could be done in 3 stages whilst still using the old not fit for purpose until the last phase.

[Warwickshire Robin]

I genuinely can’t see a new main stand ever happening but I could see the current structure undergoing major refurbishment like what they did at Plymouth and their mayflower stand. Almost identical in fact just on a smaller scale.
New and modern dressing rooms in the corner in place of the existing club shop & ticket office with police control room on top. Old stand reprofiled and modernised inside and out with new seated area in front.

Hopefully the MG takeover goes through and we can start to see our off field (and on field) hopes become a reality

Extending and updating the old stand at both ends seems the most likely and affordable and could be done in 3 stages whilst still using the old not fit for purpose until the last phase.

Totally agree. Doing it in stages would mean less major disruption and remove the possibility of having to play games away from Whaddon Road whilst the work is done

Also most new stands and virtually all new stadia look souless and identical these days. This would be great opportunity for a unique new, old looking, main stand

[Robin]

I genuinely can’t see a new main stand ever happening but I could see the current structure undergoing major refurbishment like what they did at Plymouth and their mayflower stand. Almost identical in fact just on a smaller scale.
New and modern dressing rooms in the corner in place of the existing club shop & ticket office with police control room on top. Old stand reprofiled and modernised inside and out with new seated area in front.

Hopefully the MG takeover goes through and we can start to see our off field (and on field) hopes become a reality

Extending and updating the old stand at both ends seems the most likely and affordable and could be done in 3 stages whilst still using the old not fit for purpose until the last phase.

Totally agree. Doing it in stages would mean less major disruption and remove the possibility of having to play games away from Whaddon Road whilst the work is done

Also most new stands and virtually all new stadia look souless and identical these days. This would be great opportunity for a unique new, old looking, main stand

Why would we need to play away from Whaddon Road? The ground holds 5000 without that side it's just about enough for a full season whilst the new main stand is built. Also I don't think there has ever been a precedent of a club playing elsehwere whilst they redevelop once side of the ground?

[Warwickshire Robin]

Extending and updating the old stand at both ends seems the most likely and affordable and could be done in 3 stages whilst still using the old not fit for purpose until the last phase.

Totally agree. Doing it in stages would mean less major disruption and remove the possibility of having to play games away from Whaddon Road whilst the work is done

Also most new stands and virtually all new stadia look souless and identical these days. This would be great opportunity for a unique new, old looking, main stand

Why would we need to play away from Whaddon Road? The ground holds 5000 without that side it's just about enough for a full season whilst the new main stand is built. Also I don't think there has ever been a precedent of a club playing elsehwere whilst they redevelop once side of the ground?

Because, in my opinion, that side of the ground contains almost all of the stadium infrastructure, changing rooms, offices, board room, shop, hospitality, bars, security control room. If that side becomes unusable where will all that go whilst still allowing the stadium to be used? The loss of corporate income would be high and the cost to provide all that space in temporary accommodation would also add big money to the redevelopment costs and where would it go? I just can't see it being done?

[Warwickshire Robin]

Totally agree. Doing it in stages would mean less major disruption and remove the possibility of having to play games away from Whaddon Road whilst the work is done

Also most new stands and virtually all new stadia look souless and identical these days. This would be great opportunity for a unique new, old looking, main stand

Why would we need to play away from Whaddon Road? The ground holds 5000 without that side it's just about enough for a full season whilst the new main stand is built. Also I don't think there has ever been a precedent of a club playing elsehwere whilst they redevelop once side of the ground?

Because, in my opinion, that side of the ground contains almost all of the stadium infrastructure, changing rooms, offices, board room, shop, hospitality, bars, security control room. If that side becomes unusable where will all that go whilst still allowing the stadium to be used? The loss of corporate income would be high and the cost to provide all that space in temporary accommodation would also add big money to the redevelopment costs and where would it go? I just can't see it being done?

[Ihearye]

Why would we need to play away from Whaddon Road? The ground holds 5000 without that side it's just about enough for a full season whilst the new main stand is built. Also I don't think there has ever been a precedent of a club playing elsehwere whilst they redevelop once side of the ground?

Because, in my opinion, that side of the ground contains almost all of the stadium infrastructure, changing rooms, offices, shop, hospitality, bars, security control room. If that side becomes unusable where will all that go whilst still allowing the stadium to be used? The loss of corporate income would be high and the cost to provide all that space in temporary accommodation would also add big money to the redevelopment costs and where would it go? I just can't see it being done?

Kind of contradicting yourself here Robin. It may hold 5000 but as you say, once the CF fills, sales drop off, so no reason to think people who prefer to sit will opt to stand.
On the whole tend to agree with the belief that any major development is some way down the track

[Shade]

Why would we need to play away from Whaddon Road? The ground holds 5000 without that side it's just about enough for a full season whilst the new main stand is built. Also I don't think there has ever been a precedent of a club playing elsehwere whilst they redevelop once side of the ground?

Because, in my opinion, that side of the ground contains almost all of the stadium infrastructure, changing rooms, offices, board room, shop, hospitality, bars, security control room. If that side becomes unusable where will all that go whilst still allowing the stadium to be used? The loss of corporate income would be high and the cost to provide all that space in temporary accommodation would also add big money to the redevelopment costs and where would it go? I just can't see it being done?

I'm no expert but if they got going right at the end of a season, could they not get all the essential areas, changing rooms, etc, done as a priority and then continue building around them? Just get the players to walk into the pitch in hard hats and hi vis vests sponsored by Selco. It'll be fine

(I'm not sure why this is inside a quote. I can't see anything to say why it is)

[Robin]

If we ground share we are realistically looking at a season playing at Swindle which would mean lower crowds (I could see us barely averaging 2500) and paying rent to them. Whereas we could easily rent temp changing huts and go without corporate facilities for a season for a lot less cost. I cannot see us playing away whilst it was developed and to be honest you'd assume the demolition would happen immediately in the off season so plenty of time for temp facilities for things like changing rooms even before pre-season begins.

[Robin]

Because, in my opinion, that side of the ground contains almost all of the stadium infrastructure, changing rooms, offices, shop, hospitality, bars, security control room. If that side becomes unusable where will all that go whilst still allowing the stadium to be used? The loss of corporate income would be high and the cost to provide all that space in temporary accommodation would also add big money to the redevelopment costs and where would it go? I just can't see it being done?

Kind of contradicting yourself here Robin. It may hold 5000 but as you say, once the CF fills, sales drop off, so no reason to think people who prefer to sit will opt to stand.
On the whole tend to agree with the belief that any major development is some way down the track

We are looking at minimum three years I believe could be more like five as we are probably looking for someone to partner on the development with us.

[horlickfanclub]

If we ground share we are realistically looking at a season playing at Swindle which would mean lower crowds (I could see us barely averaging 2500) and paying rent to them. Whereas we could easily rent temp changing huts and go without corporate facilities for a season for a lot less cost. I cannot see us playing away whilst it was developed and to be honest you'd assume the demolition would happen immediately in the off season so plenty of time for temp facilities for things like changing rooms even before pre-season begins.

Where in your grand demolition plan would media and supporters needing an accessible go during the building ? Much better ideas have been suggested in other posts.

[Jerry St Clair]

It’s possible to begin building a new stand around the old stand while keeping the latter open.

You could begin building infrastructure (ground works, offices, changing rooms) behind and to the side of the existing stand and do the build in phases. It would be more complex than just flattening and building in one go, but it’s been done elsewhere. This would minimise the time needed for full closure of the stand and its facilities.

[Robin]

If we ground share we are realistically looking at a season playing at Swindle which would mean lower crowds (I could see us barely averaging 2500) and paying rent to them. Whereas we could easily rent temp changing huts and go without corporate facilities for a season for a lot less cost. I cannot see us playing away whilst it was developed and to be honest you'd assume the demolition would happen immediately in the off season so plenty of time for temp facilities for things like changing rooms even before pre-season begins.

Where in your grand demolition plan would media and supporters needing an accessible go during the building ? Much better ideas have been suggested in other posts.

You mean the much better ideas of spending even more money by ground sharing or building a stand in phases? I'm just not convinced they are feasible and cannot recall a single instance when another club has done that.

In term of disabled supporters surely they can be accommodated in other parts of the ground?

[Robin]

It’s possible to begin building a new stand around the old stand while keeping the latter open.

You could begin building infrastructure (ground works, offices, changing rooms) behind and to the side of the existing stand and do the build in phases. It would be more complex than just flattening and building in one go, but it’s been done elsewhere. This would minimise the time needed for full closure of the stand and its facilities.

Not doubting you but genuinely curious when has this been done elsewhere and by whom? The idea of phased building sounds nice but let's say we tried it that means the Paddock is a no go as the canteen area is bulldozed and there is no access point. Same the other side no access to the home end as construction is taking place.

[horlickfanclub]

If we ground share we are realistically looking at a season playing at Swindle which would mean lower crowds (I could see us barely averaging 2500) and paying rent to them. Whereas we could easily rent temp changing huts and go without corporate facilities for a season for a lot less cost. I cannot see us playing away whilst it was developed and to be honest you'd assume the demolition would happen immediately in the off season so plenty of time for temp facilities for things like changing rooms even before pre-season begins.

Where in your grand demolition plan would media and supporters needing an accessible go during the building ? Much better ideas have been suggested in other posts.

You mean the much better ideas of spending even more money by ground sharing or building a stand in phases? I'm just not convinced they are feasible and cannot recall a single instance when another club has done that.

In term of disabled supporters surely they can be accommodated in other parts of the ground?

Where? You don't mention the media which is an EFL requirement.

[Robin]

Media would be put in a portacabin I'm sure, we are not the first club to build a new main stand. I'm pretty sure every club has faced this and not needed to play at another ground.

[Robin]

If anyone went to Bromley they were also building a new main stand albeit probably half the size of our likely one. They didn't seem to have any issues.

[Jerry St Clair]

It’s possible to begin building a new stand around the old stand while keeping the latter open.

You could begin building infrastructure (ground works, offices, changing rooms) behind and to the side of the existing stand and do the build in phases. It would be more complex than just flattening and building in one go, but it’s been done elsewhere. This would minimise the time needed for full closure of the stand and its facilities.

Not doubting you but genuinely curious when has this been done elsewhere and by whom? The idea of phased building sounds nice but let's say we tried it that means the Paddock is a no go as the canteen area is bulldozed and there is no access point. Same the other side no access to the home end as construction is taking place.

Liverpool did it with their main stand. The new one was built around and over the old one while it remained in use. Appreciate that’s a grand scale though.

At a smaller level Luton did it when they built a new stand around and over their old exec boxes while keeping them open. Grimsby built extensions to the side and back of their main stand while keeping it open - admittedly a refurb rather than a replacement. Wimbledon did it at Kingsmeadow as well when they bought the ground and replace the main stand.

[horlickfanclub]

Media would be put in a portacabin I'm sure, we are not the first club to build a new main stand. I'm pretty sure every club has faced this and not needed to play at another ground.

You have the media in a portacabin. Will they see the match from there? You have not suggested where on the ground the accessible area would be.

[Ihearye]

Media would be put in a portacabin I'm sure, we are not the first club to build a new main stand. I'm pretty sure every club has faced this and not needed to play at another ground.

You have the media in a portacabin. Will they see the match from there? You have not suggested where on the ground the accessible area would be.

Seems you need a lawyer and an architect with you now when posting an opinion

[paperboy]

Media would be put in a portacabin I'm sure, we are not the first club to build a new main stand. I'm pretty sure every club has faced this and not needed to play at another ground.

You have the media in a portacabin. Will they see the match from there? You have not suggested where on the ground the accessible area would be.

Seems you need a lawyer and an architect with you now when posting an opinion

I'm not sure you realise how many of us Nesters are lawyers by day, architects by night and importantly also Uefa qualified coaches at weekends.

[TheTownClub]

Here's an interview with Mr Garlick (not a recent one so no mention of CTFC) https://archive.is/qOZKX

“One of the things that made me go [from Burnley] in the end was I was a multi-millionaire playing in a multi-billionaire’s league. Every season was just, ‘Can we stay up again?’ For me as an owner, but for the players and Sean [Dyche] as well, how long can you keep that mentality going?”

That was the quote I noted. My fear, more longer than shorter term, is that even league two is turning into a billionaire's league.

[Robin]

I don't think it's the case in league two but you do need outside investment/benefactor you cannot survive on gates receipts alone now. The hope is Mike Garlick can build the infrastructure for us to generate more revenue. Our gates are not small in league two (eight clubs below us last season) and could add another 500 more easily I would think with a new main stand and some marketing.

You have to look at clubs like Barnet and Bromley on crowds half of ours and wonder how they will stay in the league medium term without investment.

[Wellwisher]

Our gates are not small in league two (eight clubs below us last season) and could add another 500 more easily I would think with a new main stand and some marketing.

An extra 500 seats at, say, £25 a pop raises an extra £12,500 a game, x 25 home games, comes to £312,500 a season. Meaning a £10m stand would take 32 seasons to recoup.

Now I know that such fans will also buy food and drink etc, but as against that, the interest on £10m could nearly double the cost of the stand if paid back over such a period.

And that's before the cost of maintenance and renovation, plus the cost of the marketing effort you refer to.

(While we won't talk about the possibility of relegation to non-league )

Now I'm not saying these things couldn't be overcome at Whaddon Road, but the financing of such a project is never easy, when eg even Spurs were nearly bankrupted in 1981 by a huge overrun in the cost of the redevelopment of the West Stand (flash seats and Exec Boxes etc) at the old White Hart Lane. (Plenty of other clubs have got it badly wrong in the decades since)

[Jerry St Clair]

You’re forgetting the non-Matchday revenue that a Main Stand would generate.

It’s hard to quantify but Chesterfield, for example, generated £1.75m in commercial revenue in their last season in the National League. That figure included sponsorship, hospitality, non-matchday revenue and club shop takings. The Spireites have a large, modern main stand much like the kind of thing we’d get.

Sponsorship would likely have been around £300-500k (that’s a L2 average, so an upper estimate). For non-matchday, hospitality and, to a slightly lesser degree, club shop a Main Stand with modern facilities would have contributed a large amount towards the remaining £1.25-1.45m

[longmover]

Our gates are not small in league two (eight clubs below us last season) and could add another 500 more easily I would think with a new main stand and some marketing.

An extra 500 seats at, say, £25 a pop raises an extra £12,500 a game, x 25 home games, comes to £312,500 a season. Meaning a £10m stand would take 32 seasons to recoup.

Now I know that such fans will also buy food and drink etc, but as against that, the interest on £10m could nearly double the cost of the stand if paid back over such a period.

And that's before the cost of maintenance and renovation, plus the cost of the marketing effort you refer to.

(While we won't talk about the possibility of relegation to non-league )

Now I'm not saying these things couldn't be overcome at Whaddon Road, but the financing of such a project is never easy, when eg even Spurs were nearly bankrupted in 1981 by a huge overrun in the cost of the redevelopment of the West Stand (flash seats and Exec Boxes etc) at the old White Hart Lane. (Plenty of other clubs have got it badly wrong in the decades since)

that's why that main stand should have been rebuilt 20+ years ago, everything was cheaper then as well.

[Si Robin]

20 years ago we were just starting on the Hazelwoods Stand, having completed the Colin Farmer 3 years before.

In what World do you think we were in a position to build a new Main Stand as well?

[longmover]

20 years ago we were just starting on the Hazelwoods Stand, having completed the Colin Farmer 3 years before.

In what World do you think we were in a position to build a new Main Stand as well?

Why not...? Strike when the feel good factor was around in the early 00's, they've built two sides build the rest or at least plan to get it done.

[horlickfanclub]

20 years ago we were just starting on the Hazelwoods Stand, having completed the Colin Farmer 3 years before.

In what World do you think we were in a position to build a new Main Stand as well?

Why not...? Strike when the feel good factor was around in the early 00's, they've built two sides build the rest or at least plan to get it done.

Why not ? I think Si Robin explained that. Also some of the simplistic revenue statements in previous posts above forget to deduct VAT from gate revenue.

[Si Robin]

20 years ago we were just starting on the Hazelwoods Stand, having completed the Colin Farmer 3 years before.

In what World do you think we were in a position to build a new Main Stand as well?

Why not...? Strike when the feel good factor was around in the early 00's, they've built two sides build the rest or at least plan to get it done.

I'm going to hazard a guess that no-one in the club was shitting money at the time.

[Shade]

With the seats, I think people are forgetting that a lot of people prefer to stand, but they go for seats in the CF because the view from the terraces is c!#p by comparison. Improve that, and I'm sure standing tickets would sell almost as well as the seats. For example, I'm sure Block 1, who never sit anyway, would far prefer to be behind the goal if they could see the action better.

[longmover]

20 years ago we were just starting on the Hazelwoods Stand, having completed the Colin Farmer 3 years before.

In what World do you think we were in a position to build a new Main Stand as well?

Why not...? Strike when the feel good factor was around in the early 00's, they've built two sides build the rest or at least plan to get it done.

I'm going to hazard a guess that no-one in the club was shitting money at the time.

you can plan for things, a nice model of the main stand and plans made up and a proposal saying we want this in place in ten years, nothing wrong with that is there, Most clubs main stands are the hub of the operation and seen as a priority.

[Ihearye]

20 years ago we were just starting on the Hazelwoods Stand, having completed the Colin Farmer 3 years before.

In what World do you think we were in a position to build a new Main Stand as well?

Why not...? Strike when the feel good factor was around in the early 00's, they've built two sides build the rest or at least plan to get it done.

Why not ? I think Si Robin explained that. Also some of the simplistic revenue statements in previous posts above forget to deduct VAT from gate revenue.

Well the VAT deduction kind of works both ways when talking millions to build or amend the main stand

[Shade]

JP has said he's confident Mike Garlick's takeover will be completed before the end of August.

I'm sure a lot were hoping for next week or early August, but it seems that's unrealistic. I'd guessed around 1st August, myself.

[Ihearye]

JP has said he's confident Mike Garlick's takeover will be completed before the end of August.

I'm sure a lot were hoping for next week or early August, but it seems that's unrealistic. I'd guessed around 1st August, myself.

almost as good an estimate as 0-5 at half time ?

[Shade]

When you're hot, you're hot!